(→n) |
m (→HAR) |
||
(2 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown) | |||
Line 863: | Line 863: | ||
|notes={{Plainlist| | |notes={{Plainlist| | ||
* Returns to crouching}} | * Returns to crouching}} | ||
Decent way to setup a FC mix. Can be ducked and ws4-ed by a sharp opponent, or straight hopkicked. Opponents usually default to ducking it at first unless you've used it enough to where they're thinking about the optimal response. I wonder if you have to commit to the duck~ws4 to beat all options, or if just df3 into CH-move will punish it. Edit: It does not punish it; a duck into ws4 or even a hopkick with good timing will beat ''all' these options. Overall unrewarding to use if the opponent can defend, so use with caution. | Decent way to setup a FC mix. Can be ducked and ws4-ed by a sharp opponent, or straight hopkicked. Opponents usually default to ducking it at first unless you've used it enough to where they're thinking about the optimal response. I wonder if you have to commit to the duck~ws4 to beat all options, or if just df3 into CH-move will punish it. Edit: It does not punish it; a duck into ws4 or even a hopkick with good timing will beat ''all'' these options. Overall unrewarding to use if the opponent can defend, so use with caution. | ||
}} | }} | ||
{{MoveData | {{MoveData | ||
Line 1,746: | Line 1,746: | ||
|hit=+6a | |hit=+6a | ||
|ch=+6a | |ch=+6a | ||
|notes=Can be used a pseudo-approach tool since opponents might wait to duck and punish the follow-up. If they're too trigger-happy on the duck and punish, a follow-up immediate df4 will CH them. | |notes=Can be used as a pseudo-approach tool since opponents might wait to duck and punish the follow-up. If they're too trigger-happy on the duck and punish, a follow-up immediate df4 will CH them. | ||
}} | }} | ||
{{MoveData | {{MoveData | ||
Line 2,552: | Line 2,552: | ||
|notes={{Plainlist| | |notes={{Plainlist| | ||
* Lapses to standing after frame 46 | * Lapses to standing after frame 46 | ||
* Moves can be delayed until frame 38}} | * Moves can be delayed until frame 38 | ||
* Manual HAR is surprisingly good to run mixups since it avoids the set "trigger" from a b+1 or a d+2, making it more difficult to defend against or react to, and adding to the opponent's mental stack.}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{MoveData | {{MoveData | ||
Line 2,562: | Line 2,563: | ||
* Alternate input HAR.db | * Alternate input HAR.db | ||
* Can be done after frame 10 of HAR | * Can be done after frame 10 of HAR | ||
* Fastest f+4~d is 26 total}} | * Fastest f+4~d is 26 total | ||
* Great tool to run FC mixups since opponents will be thinking about the HAR mixup as well, and transitioning to FC beats the SSR~duck defense against HAR mixups.}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{MoveData | {{MoveData | ||
Line 2,577: | Line 2,579: | ||
|hit=+17g | |hit=+17g | ||
|ch=[[Katarina combos#Mini-combos|+27a]] | |ch=[[Katarina combos#Mini-combos|+27a]] | ||
|notes=The anti-mash callout. When running HAR mixups, it discourages the opponent from interrupting/stepping slower HAR moves (HAR.1 CH does a chunk), thus forcing them to guess, allowing you to forego the mixup to poke or run another mixup (or anything else, really). Can still be SSR~ducked (or just ducked) for a full launch, so it's still somewhat risky. Using it raw is an interesting idea which I haven't experimented with myself or seen done at high levels. It could function like a worse version of Kuni's SET.2. | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{MoveData | {{MoveData | ||
Line 2,590: | Line 2,593: | ||
|ch=[[Katarina combos#Staples|+46a]] | |ch=[[Katarina combos#Staples|+46a]] | ||
|notes={{Plainlist| | |notes={{Plainlist| | ||
* {{FB}}}} | * {{FB}} | ||
* A tough move to use effectively since it is easily stepped, slower than HAR.4 and worse on hit. The pros are that it is better on block and much better on CH, since it gives a full launch. Not quite sure how to place this move, either out of HAR or in the neutral. | |||
}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{MoveData | {{MoveData | ||
Line 2,603: | Line 2,608: | ||
|block=-25 | |block=-25 | ||
|hit=[[Katarina combos#Mini-combos|+26a]] | |hit=[[Katarina combos#Mini-combos|+26a]] | ||
|notes=Kat's all-or-nothing low from HAR. Can be reacted to (although it can be mixed with HAR.uf+3), and stepped. High-risk, high-reward, like many of Kat's tools. | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{MoveData | {{MoveData | ||
Line 2,616: | Line 2,622: | ||
|hit=+10a (+1) | |hit=+10a (+1) | ||
|notes={{Plainlist| | |notes={{Plainlist| | ||
* {{WB}}}} | * {{WB}} | ||
* Solid mid knee to discourage ducking. Knocks down on hit and wall bounces, although fishing for a wall bounce with it is tough since the move comes out of HAR (so it is overall too slow). Completely ends your turn on block, and can still be sidestepped. In practice, I find that the forward momentum of the move makes it tricky to punish properly even if you sidestep. | |||
}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{MoveData | {{MoveData | ||
Line 2,627: | Line 2,635: | ||
|block=-13 | |block=-13 | ||
|hit=-2 | |hit=-2 | ||
|notes=Kat's anti-SSR/SSR~duck tool. It makes running the basic HAR mixups not that bad on paper, otherwise SSR would completely dominate. It's still risky enough to not make it worth running HAR exclusively, since the move itself is punishable on block (but I doubt most players would punish it in practice), and leads to an ambiguous situation on hit. | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{MoveData | {{MoveData | ||
Line 2,646: | Line 2,655: | ||
* {{Tailspin}} | * {{Tailspin}} | ||
* Combo from 1st hit | * Combo from 1st hit | ||
* Input can be delayed 4f}} | * Input can be delayed 4f | ||
* Duckable high extension to discourage punishment against solo HAR.df+2. Tailspin launches on CH, so punishing HAR.df+2 is not a good default.}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{MoveData | {{MoveData | ||
Line 2,660: | Line 2,670: | ||
|hit=+5c | |hit=+5c | ||
|ch=[[Katarina_combos#Mini-combos|+39a]] | |ch=[[Katarina_combos#Mini-combos|+39a]] | ||
|notes=Excellent low option to use out of HAR to mixup with. Has amazing range when coupled with the space HAR already covers, so it becomes a credible option to use post-knockdown on oki (did I mention it hits grounded?) Not too bad on block, and great frames on hit. Defenders should ideally try to low parry this if they make a hard read. Otherwise, this can still be defended against using SSR~duck. It can also be interrupted/floated. It also has decent tracking. | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{MoveData | {{MoveData | ||
Line 2,675: | Line 2,686: | ||
|notes={{Plainlist| | |notes={{Plainlist| | ||
* Hit vs FUFT and FUFA [[Katarina combos#Mini-combos|+12a]]}} | * Hit vs FUFT and FUFA [[Katarina combos#Mini-combos|+12a]]}} | ||
* The mid mixup to HAR.df+3. Somewhat linear, but rewarding on hit with an ub+4 follow-up. | |||
}} | }} | ||
Latest revision as of 19:17, 5 October 2023
Katarina (Tekken 7) |
---|
Rage
Input
R.3+4
R.HAR.1+2
n
1
1,1
- Combo from 1st NH
- jails
Jab string ending in -1 on block with extensions. Much better to stick to an opponent compared to single jab, so probably better to use in poking situations. Generally a bad idea to challenge it on block due to 1,1,1 and 1,1,2 (or even HAR transitions) that will CH you. Obviously need to condition them with it a bit. Tracks SS~move well, but can still be stepped or walked fairly easily.
1,1,F
1,1,1
- Combo from 2nd CH
Mid mixup option from 1,1. Used to catch them if they're ducking, stepping or challenging after 1,1. The "sensible" option to use since it is less favourable on block and less rewarding on CH than 1,1,2, but safer. Not safe against characters with punch parries though (e.g., Jin, Feng)
1,1,2
1,1,3
- Can be stepped right
A more rewarding mid option to use from 1,1 since the on-block situation is better (on-hit is also better). Can be used to discourage ducking (or encourage stepping) to open up more 1,1,2. I'm not sure if that's worth it since 1,1,2 doesn't really lead to good mixups anyways (d3 can be backdashed, I think). If you use it more, opponent will think about stepping right to avoid it, instead of just trying to guess between duck or not, which adds to the mental stack and can get them hit by both 1,1,1 and 1,1,2 (they hit steppers), so it is a necessary option to use.
1,1,4
1,2
- Combo from 1st NH
Normal 1,2 jab string. Starts Kat's 10-hit if you're so inclined. Not entirely sure about the tracking usage of it, but I believe it does track SSL specifically.
1,4
- Combo from 1st NH
Excellent high-low non-jailing jab string which gives +1 on hit. The low has pretty good range too, although it's likely to be parried by a sharp opponent if they're seeing the jab into the start of the low. Good for creating momentum and pressuring the opponent up close. Anecdotally seems to be tough to parry, since I've seen Joonya 20z almost spam this without really getting punished for it. Follow-up situation is weird in that a df+1 seems to track better than normal. Almost no one can step it unless they SW (Zaf is an exception).
2
2,2
- Combo from 1st NH
Kat's i12 punisher. Has excellent range, wallsplats, tailspins and does good damage. Could have been the best i12 punisher in the game if not for the sub-par situation on hit. Due to the ballerina spin, it gives almost no mixup opportunity on hit in the neutral. Most pokes can be backdashed or backswing blowed, dashing into a poke opens you up to getting magic 4-ed or hopkicked, and doing a long-range low option like df3+4 or db3 is highly risky (especially if the matchup makes the former also launch-punishable). Still need to explore how to better take advantage of this situation.
3
- Easily evaded by low-profile moves/stances
The start of Kat's 3-string. Has really good range, and can be used to harass an opponent by teasing them with just the first hit while they sit there blocking and waiting for the full string. It's really annoying being on the receiving end of a Kat just waggling her leg at you doing 3, then 3,3, then 3, then 3,3,3,F ad nauseam. Can be good for getting mental frames for a poke mixup. Further mental frames if they are conditioned to wait for 3,4, which can CH tailspin if they attempt to challenge standing 3.
3,3
3,3,3
3,3,3,F
3,3,3,3
3,3,3,3,3
The FB on aerial opponents happens rarely, and can't be reproduced at will. If it could, it would make Kat's the most damaging wall combo in the game, probably.
3,4
Seems tough to duck in practice, since I've rarely seen opponents attempt to duck it in tournament play. But definitely can be ducked if your opponents are looking out for it. Technically, you always want to duck after standing 3 since 3,3 and follow-ups jail.
4
4,4
4,4,4
- can SSR after 1st hit on block
The most common CH fishing magic 4 string that Kat players use. Shouldn't be done always since the mixup is between i10 punish or -1 HAR transition. The latter is also bad in the long run for Kat. If you only use this (or mixup between it and the HAR transition), you will almost always lose momentum after a CH fish attempt. This would be bad against characters with strong mixups.
4,4,4,F
- can SSR~duck after 1st hit on block to evade the rest of the string
Transition to evade a potential i10 punish on the 4,4,4 string (and land a CH of your own with HAR.1). Shouldn't be done always since forcing the HAR mix at -1 is a losing game for Kat.
4,4,4,4
- can SSR
Outside of using it as a mixup in the back, I'm not sure what this can be used for and how it fits into the 4-string mixup overall. Could probably be used if the opponent is not moving after 4,4,4, but why? Just mixup instead. I think this can be used as a harder callout on a jab punish on 4,4,4, but this is super-risky since the opponent could just step/duck and launch punish. Not sure if the follow-up 4 can be confirmed on CH or something either.
Can be used to catch certain i12 retaliations on 4,4,4 (except Leroy and Hei, apparently).
4,4,4,4,4
Wall bounce tool that's practically impossible to use to actually get a wallbounce with. Very unlikely you're going to see this unless you land it as a combo in the back or to cheese on unfamiliar opponents.
1+3+4
f
f+3
f+1+2
Slow, high headbutt that gives +1c on block and a mini-combo on hit and CH. Similar-ish to f+3, but doesn't high crush. I hardly use this move, and I'm not sure where it could be used other than to deal with reversals or to just increase the opponent's mental stack. Similar use to f+3, but higher risk (duckable high) and higher reward (follow-up ub4 on NH). Doesn't low crush either.
f+3+4
Standard mid power crush. Has some value being used at the wall since it wall splats/balcony breaks with a single hit. I almost never use it for that purpose. In fact, I hardly use it at all.
df
df+1
df+1,1
- Combo from 1st NH
Standard df1 high extension to catch steppers, and now gives a lot more +frames on hit (can still step fairly well on block). Opponent could potentially do SS~duck to evade this, but it isn't easy to punish.
df+1,1,F
- Combo from 1st NH
I rarely use this HAR transition. Not sure what it's good for, really. If you're using df1 as your mid check, with the occasional df1,1 to catch stepping, then this extension is not really necessary. Maybe just adds to the opponent's confusion if they're respecting your df1. You could potentially mix them up. Yes, if they're stepping or challenging, df1,1 would catch them, so they're conditioned to sit still. Then you could run HAR mixups. Have to use it sparingly though, compared to how much you'd use df1.
df+2
Excellent mid-range tracking tool to use. Extra damage on CH. Mental frames from the extensions too. Good move overall.
df+2,2
- Combo from 1st NH
- can SSR if first hit connects off-axis to the right
Mid extension to df2. Only -10, so not that bad in certain matchups. Potential to wall splat
df+2,4
- Combo from 1st NH
- can SSR if first hit connects off-axis to the right
High extension to df2. Also wall splats. Can be ducked and launched though, so use sparingly. Can also RA in between.
df+3
df+3,3
- Combo from 1st CH
The cheese KND string. Good and annoying against opponents who don't know how to deal with it, but virtually impossible to land against decent opponents. Better to just use df3 for the mental frames. Could possibly use it against a good opponent after using df3 a lot for the mental frames, and they start to challenge it. Could also use it against opponents who've been conditioned with df3,3,D usage and start challenging or checking it. Overall a risky move to use, so condition well.
df+3,3,D
- Returns to crouching
Decent way to setup a FC mix. Can be ducked and ws4-ed by a sharp opponent, or straight hopkicked. Opponents usually default to ducking it at first unless you've used it enough to where they're thinking about the optimal response. I wonder if you have to commit to the duck~ws4 to beat all options, or if just df3 into CH-move will punish it. Edit: It does not punish it; a duck into ws4 or even a hopkick with good timing will beat all these options. Overall unrewarding to use if the opponent can defend, so use with caution.
df+4
- easily evaded by low-profile moves/stances
Fairly good i15 mid, safe CH fishing tool. Unparryable knee too, so can almost be used as a poke against parry-happy opponents. Has shit tracking (everyone can step it at even -7), so use with caution against good steppers. Has 'not bad' range.
df+3+4
- Returns to crouching
- Forced to crouching upon NH
The low which makes everyone (i.e., TMM) hate Kat. Has full-screen range, and sets up her FC mix at +1 (which is exactly as rewarding as FC.df+4 on hit). Good to use as an approach tool, or as a timing switch, but borderline reactable due to its speed, range (it is likely the only move that'll hit from afar) and somewhat unique animation.
d
d+1
- Forced to crouching upon block
An underrated move. Good range, and the forced crouch is very annoying to be on the receiving end of, even at negative frames (unless your opponent has a powerful FC mix, in which case, don't abuse this). Good for keepout, and hits most low-profile moves (e.g, Zaf, LC etc.). Opponent can check you after d+1 on block with a ws4, which prevents you from doing anything, but d+1 can be spaced such that a retaliatory ws4 whiffs after a backdash, allowing a whiff punish.
d+2
d+2,F
d+3
d+3,3
- Combo from 1st CH
Mid extension to d+3. No special properties, just use to catch them ducking d+3,4. Slightly delayable, but you get no other reward from catching them mashing a punish.
d+3,4
- Combo from 1st CH
Safe high extension to d+3. Use as the higher risk-reward mixup option, since it's safe (and very lightly minus) but can be ducked and launched. Can slightly delay the string to possibly get a CH into ub+4 follow-up. Has good pushback on block. I believe it's almost twitch-confirmable.
d+4
- Returns to crouching
Standard d+4. Has great range. Can lead to FC mixup, but it is not rewarding in the long run. d+4 into backdash is an amazing whiff trap.
db
db+1
- Returns to crouching
- Input F to standing
Regular duck jab, nothing special.
db+3
db+4
Kat's snake edge. Don't use unless you want to play risky. Don't know of any niche, sensible uses either other than the extremely sensible Vitolic special.
db+3+4
b
b+1
b+1,F
b+1,1
- Combo from 1st CH
b+1,2
- Combo from first NH
- Template:Wall crush
b+2
b+3
b+4
b+4,1+2
- Combo from 1st NH
- Forced to crouch upon blocking
b+4,3+4
- Forced to crouch upon blocking
b+3+4
ub
ub+4
uf
uf+3
uf+4
uf+4,4
uf+4,4,4
uf+4,4,4,4,F
uf+4,4,4,4,4
uf+4,4,4,4,4,4
uf+3+4
uf,n,3
Motion input
f,F+2
f,F+2,4
- Combo from 1st hit
Good long range, fast whiff punisher. Can be difficult to reactively duck against.
f,F+3
- Forced to crouching upon block
- Disable ukemi on face-up down hit
Decent advancing low crush move. Very linear. Not really sure how to use this in neutral.
f,F+4
- Not universally punishable due to pushback. Characters which can punish it are -
- Punishable by all characters when used with the opponent's back to a wall
Kat's only true mid homing move. Slow in neutral, but can be buffered out of pokes seemingly much better. Has good pushback on block. Very slow recovery on whiff. Can rush into a manual HAR mix on hit (but don't force this).
f,f,F+3
- Forced to crouching upon block
Kat's slash kick. Very linear and floatable. Has some oki applications, but not sure where it is guaranteed to get blocked. Very good property in that it hits grounded. Use very sparingly. Works for oki after 2+4 throw on hit into ub4.
(Back to wall).b,b,UB
- Ends in BT
- Cannot be buffered
Throw
1+3
- Long Range Throw
Make sure to apply the post-throw mixup properly.
df+1+2
- Damage() is wall hit
- Wall splat
Creates a lot of space on break, so can be used to relieve pressure.
Grounded opponent
WS
ws1
ws3,3,3,F
ws3,3,3,3,3
ws4
FC
FC.3
FC.df+4
BT
HAR
f+4
- Lapses to standing after frame 46
- Moves can be delayed until frame 38
- Manual HAR is surprisingly good to run mixups since it avoids the set "trigger" from a b+1 or a d+2, making it more difficult to defend against or react to, and adding to the opponent's mental stack.
HAR.d
- Alternate input HAR.db
- Can be done after frame 10 of HAR
- Fastest f+4~d is 26 total
- Great tool to run FC mixups since opponents will be thinking about the HAR mixup as well, and transitioning to FC beats the SSR~duck defense against HAR mixups.
HAR.1
HAR.2
- A tough move to use effectively since it is easily stepped, slower than HAR.4 and worse on hit. The pros are that it is better on block and much better on CH, since it gives a full launch. Not quite sure how to place this move, either out of HAR or in the neutral.
HAR.3
HAR.4
- Solid mid knee to discourage ducking. Knocks down on hit and wall bounces, although fishing for a wall bounce with it is tough since the move comes out of HAR (so it is overall too slow). Completely ends your turn on block, and can still be sidestepped. In practice, I find that the forward momentum of the move makes it tricky to punish properly even if you sidestep.
HAR.df+2
HAR.df+2,3
- Combo from 1st hit
- Input can be delayed 4f
- Duckable high extension to discourage punishment against solo HAR.df+2. Tailspin launches on CH, so punishing HAR.df+2 is not a good default.
HAR.df+3
HAR.uf+3
- Hit vs FUFT and FUFA +12a
10 Strings
10 Hit Combo 1 | ||||||
Input | Hit level | Damage | Startup | Block | Hit | Combo |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | h | 7 | i10 | +1 | +8 | |
2 | h | 10 | ?? | -3 | +3 | ?? |
4 | h | 8 | ?? | -18 | -4 | ?? |
4 | m | 5 | ?? | -19 | -8 | ?? |
4 | h | 6 | ?? | -12 | -6 | ?? |
3 | l | 10 | ?? | -30 | KND | ?? |
3 | m | 9 | ?? | -26 | -15 | ?? |
3 | m | 5 | ?? | -16 | -5 | ?? |
3 | m | 5 | ?? | -17 | -6 | ?? |
3 | m | 22 | ?? | -21 | KND | ?? |
New move
Input