B2 loop: Difference between revisions

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[[File:B2-loops.mp4|250px|thumb|It never stops.]]
[[File:B2-loops.mp4|250px|thumb|It never stops.]]


A '''b2 loop''' is two b+2,f~n in a row by Lee in a [[juggle]]. B2 loops both extend Lee's wall carry and make it more flexible.
A '''b2 loop''' is two {{P|b+2,f~n}} in a row by Lee in a [[juggle]]. B2 loops both extend Lee's wall carry and make it more flexible.


== Alternatives ==
== Alternatives ==


While b2 loops are great for optimizing wall carry, they don't add much damage. For example, the staple d/f+2 combo route compared with alternatives:
While b2 loops are great for optimizing wall carry, they don't add much damage. For example, the staple df+2 combo route compared with alternatives:


{| class="wikitable col-1-center"}
{{Combolist|columns=1|
! Damage !! Combo
; df+2
|-
: [65] 4,u+3 b+2,f~n(x3) ws2,4 S! f+2,1
| 65 || 4,u+3 b+2,f~n(x3) ws2,4 S! f+2,1
: [63] 4,u+3 b+2,f~n 1,2,f~n ws2,4 S! f+2,1
|-
: [62] 4,u+3 b+2,f~n ws2,4 S! b+2,f~n ws2,3
| 63 || 4,u+3 b+2,f~n 1,2,f~n ws2,4 S! f+2,1
|-
| 62 || 4,u+3 b+2,f~n ws2,4 S! b+2,f~n ws2,3
|}
 
== Timing ==
 
* b+2,f~n takes 34 frames
* the next b+2,f~n must be input no later than 3 frames<ref>Against big characters, or if the opponent is higher up when first b+2,f~n connected (e.g. d/f+2 b+2,f~n), this window can be up to 2 frames longer.</ref> after to connect
 
{{Legend
|float=right
|blue=neutral
|red=b+2 input
|yellow=startup
|orange=~f input
|teal=b+2 hit
|green=transition
|purple=Mist Step
|
}}
{{FrameTable|caption=b+2 into Mist Step|
{{Frame|⋯|n|blue}}
{{Frame|⋯|b2|red}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|yellow}}
{{Frame|⋯|f|orange}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|yellow}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|teal}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|green}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|purple}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|purple}}
}}
}}


 
The combos without b2 loops usually only do 2-3 less damage.
{{FrameTable|caption=b+2 into b+2|
{{Frame|⋯|n|blue}}
{{Frame|⋯|b2|red}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|yellow}}
{{Frame|⋯|f|orange}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|yellow}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|teal}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|green}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|purple}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|purple}}
{{Frame|⋯|b2|red}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|yellow}}
{{Frame|⋯|f|orange}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|yellow}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|teal}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|green}}
{{Frame|⋯|n|purple}}
}}
 
 
Given this, it's best to target a tempo of 35 frames. This way you can be off-tempo a little and still hit the loop.


== Buffering ==
== Buffering ==


B2 loops are hard because of how the [[input buffer]] works in this case. Usually, you're able to input the next move in a combo shortly before the last one ends, and it'll act like you timed it perfectly.
B2 loops are hard because the [[input buffer]] isn't very helpful during Mist Step:


With b2 loops, however, there's a catch:
* If {{P|b}} is before {{P|2}}, you'll buffer {{P|MS.b}}, a goofy walk back (''not'' Sway, which is {{P|MS.b,n}}).
* If {{P|2}} is before {{P|b}}, you'll buffer a 2 jab.


* If you input b before 2, you'll buffer a MS b cancel
So to use the input buffer for b2 loops, you have to press {{P|b}} and {{P|2}} on the same frame.
* If you input 2 before b, you'll buffer a 2 jab
 
So to use the input buffer for b2 loops, you have to press b and 2 on the same frame.
 
This isn't quite as useful as it seems. If you use the input buffer, you throw your tempo off. You're generally better off staying on tempo, especially for practising. It can however be useful when you need a frame perfect b2 loop, such as when the opponent is slightly off-axis.


=== B1 link ===
=== B1 link ===
Line 87: Line 31:
{{See also|Lee combos#B1 link}}
{{See also|Lee combos#B1 link}}


Buffering is important to how the b1 link works. The b+1 must come out exactly when the b+2 ends, so you ''must'' press b and 1 on the same frame. Therefore, the b+1 link will always be bufferable, so it actually has a very lenient timing. For this reason, you want to time a b1 link a bit earlier than you would a b2 loop.
Buffering is important to how the b1 link works. The b+1 must come out exactly when the b+2 ends, so you ''must'' input {{P|b}} and {{P|1}} on the same frame. Therefore, the b1 link will always be bufferable, so it actually has a very lenient timing. For this reason, you want to time a b1 link a bit earlier than you would a b2 loop.


== Mentality ==
== Timing ==


In isolation, b2 loops are not that hard. The window is 3 frames. The hard part is never dropping it.
* One P|b+2,f~n takes 34 frames total.
* There's a 3 frame window for the next b+2,f~n to connect in a loop.
** Against big characters, or if the opponent is higher up when the first b+2,f~n connects—e.g. df+2 b+2,f~n—this window can be up to 2 frames longer.
* However, if you aren't inputting {{P|b}} and {{P|2}} on the same frame, then you're spending at least one of those frames on extra input, giving only a 2 frame window.


Because the extra damage from a b2 loop is so small, it's not sensible&mdash;if your goal is only to win the current game&mdash;to attempt a loop until your hit rate is over 95%.
{{Legend
|float=right
|red=MS.b
|orange=b+2 (whiffs)
|teal=Recovered
|green=b+2 (hits)
|purple=[[Input buffer]]
}}


How do you get to this point? You might think the only way is to grind out hour long practise sessions. This will of course work, but do you really want to do that?
{{FrameTableSet|
 
{{FrameTable|caption=Too early, MS.b buffered|
If you want a life outside of practising b2 loops, the answer is simple: practise while waiting for opponents. Try them in actual games occasionally. Don't force it.
{{Frame|1|b2}}
 
{{Frame|2|n}}
You'll lose a lot of games to dropped b2 loops. It's unavoidable.
{{Frame|3|f}}
{{Frame|4|n}}
{{Frame|5}}
{{Frame}}
{{Frame|26}}
{{Frame|27||purple}}
{{Frame|28||purple}}
{{Frame|29||purple}}
{{Frame|30||purple}}
{{Frame|31||purple}}
{{Frame|32||purple}}
{{Frame|33||purple}}
{{Frame|34|b|purple}}
{{Frame|35|b2|red}}
{{Frame|36||red}}
{{Frame|37||red}}
{{Frame|38||red}}
}}
{{FrameTable|caption=Earliest timing|
{{Frame|1|b2}}
{{Frame|2|n}}
{{Frame|3|f}}
{{Frame|4|n}}
{{Frame|5}}
{{Frame}}
{{Frame|26}}
{{Frame|27||purple}}
{{Frame|28||purple}}
{{Frame|29||purple}}
{{Frame|30||purple}}
{{Frame|31||purple}}
{{Frame|32||purple}}
{{Frame|33||purple}}
{{Frame|34||purple}}
{{Frame|35|b|teal}}
{{Frame|36|b2|green}}
{{Frame|37||green}}
{{Frame|38||green}}
}}
{{FrameTable|caption=Latest timing|
{{Frame|1|b2}}
{{Frame|2|n}}
{{Frame|3|f}}
{{Frame|4|n}}
{{Frame|5}}
{{Frame}}
{{Frame|26}}
{{Frame|27||purple}}
{{Frame|28||purple}}
{{Frame|29||purple}}
{{Frame|30||purple}}
{{Frame|31||purple}}
{{Frame|32||purple}}
{{Frame|33||purple}}
{{Frame|34||purple}}
{{Frame|35||teal}}
{{Frame|36|b|teal}}
{{Frame|37|b2|green}}
{{Frame|38||green}}
}}
{{FrameTable|caption=Too late, b+2 whiffs|
{{Frame|1|b2}}
{{Frame|2|n}}
{{Frame|3|f}}
{{Frame|4|n}}
{{Frame|5}}
{{Frame}}
{{Frame|26}}
{{Frame|27||purple}}
{{Frame|28||purple}}
{{Frame|29||purple}}
{{Frame|30||purple}}
{{Frame|31||purple}}
{{Frame|32||purple}}
{{Frame|33||purple}}
{{Frame|34||purple}}
{{Frame|35||teal}}
{{Frame|36||teal}}
{{Frame|37|b|teal}}
{{Frame|38|b2|orange}}
}}
{{FrameTable|caption=b and 2 on same frame, b+2 buffered|
{{Frame|1|b2}}
{{Frame|2|n}}
{{Frame|3|f}}
{{Frame|4|n}}
{{Frame|5}}
{{Frame}}
{{Frame|26}}
{{Frame|27|b2|purple}}
{{Frame|28||purple}}
{{Frame|29||purple}}
{{Frame|30||purple}}
{{Frame|31||purple}}
{{Frame|32||purple}}
{{Frame|33||purple}}
{{Frame|34||purple}}
{{Frame|35||green}}
{{Frame|36||green}}
{{Frame|37||green}}
{{Frame|38||green}}
}}
}}


B2 loops are a commitment to Lee. It's a decision you make after playing him for a while, when the pain of dropped loop can't phase you, when you're ready to say with confidence that you're a Lee player.
== Methods ==


== Notes ==
There are broadly speaking 3 methods, each with their own merits:


<references />
# Mishima method – Just input {{P|b}} and {{P|2}} on the same frame every time and don't worry about the timing.
# Chaobla method – Hold {{P|B}} well before the buffer period so that you can focus on only timing the 2.
# Mixed method – Try and input b and 2 together and time them for after the buffer period.

Revision as of 19:47, 10 February 2022

Lee (Tekken 7)
It never stops.

A b2 loop is two b+2,f~n in a row by Lee in a juggle. B2 loops both extend Lee's wall carry and make it more flexible.

Alternatives

While b2 loops are great for optimizing wall carry, they don't add much damage. For example, the staple df+2 combo route compared with alternatives:

df+2
[65] 4,u+3 b+2,f~n(x3) ws2,4 S! f+2,1
[63] 4,u+3 b+2,f~n 1,2,f~n ws2,4 S! f+2,1
[62] 4,u+3 b+2,f~n ws2,4 S! b+2,f~n ws2,3

The combos without b2 loops usually only do 2-3 less damage.

Buffering

B2 loops are hard because the input buffer isn't very helpful during Mist Step:

  • If b is before 2, you'll buffer MS.b, a goofy walk back (not Sway, which is MS.b,n).
  • If 2 is before b, you'll buffer a 2 jab.

So to use the input buffer for b2 loops, you have to press b and 2 on the same frame.

B1 link

See also: Lee combos#B1 link

Buffering is important to how the b1 link works. The b+1 must come out exactly when the b+2 ends, so you must input b and 1 on the same frame. Therefore, the b1 link will always be bufferable, so it actually has a very lenient timing. For this reason, you want to time a b1 link a bit earlier than you would a b2 loop.

Timing

  • One P|b+2,f~n takes 34 frames total.
  • There's a 3 frame window for the next b+2,f~n to connect in a loop.
    • Against big characters, or if the opponent is higher up when the first b+2,f~n connects—e.g. df+2 b+2,f~n—this window can be up to 2 frames longer.
  • However, if you aren't inputting b and 2 on the same frame, then you're spending at least one of those frames on extra input, giving only a 2 frame window.
MS.b
b+2 (whiffs)
Recovered
b+2 (hits)
Input buffer
Too early, MS.b buffered
Frame
Input
State
1
b2
2
n
3
f
4
n
5
⋯
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
b
35
b2
36
37
38
Earliest timing
Frame
Input
State
1
b2
2
n
3
f
4
n
5
⋯
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
b
36
b2
37
38
Latest timing
Frame
Input
State
1
b2
2
n
3
f
4
n
5
⋯
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
b
37
b2
38
Too late, b+2 whiffs
Frame
Input
State
1
b2
2
n
3
f
4
n
5
⋯
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
b
38
b2
b and 2 on same frame, b+2 buffered
Frame
Input
State
1
b2
2
n
3
f
4
n
5
⋯
26
27
b2
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38

Methods

There are broadly speaking 3 methods, each with their own merits:

  1. Mishima method – Just input b and 2 on the same frame every time and don't worry about the timing.
  2. Chaobla method – Hold B well before the buffer period so that you can focus on only timing the 2.
  3. Mixed method – Try and input b and 2 together and time them for after the buffer period.
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Last modified
This page was last edited on 10 February 2022, at 19:47.
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