Guard: Difference between revisions

From Wavu Wiki, the 🌊 wavy Tekken wiki
No edit summary
 
(40 intermediate revisions by 3 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
==Guard==
There are two '''guard''' levels: standing guard, done by holding B; and [[crouch]]ing guard, done by holding D or DB.


Guarding is the action of actively blocking moves and attacks. There are two types of guarding - standing guard and crouching guard. <br>
There are three basic [[attack]] types: highs, mids, and lows. Highs are blocked by standing guard and [[crush]]ed by crouching guard. Mids are blocked by standing guard, and lows are blocked by crouching guard. Lows hit vs standing guard, and mids hit vs crouching guard.


; '''Standing guard'''
Lows can also be [[low parry|parried]] with DF, leading to a [[juggle]], but this has to be timed with the low connecting.


: Standing guard blocks high and mid attacks, but does not block low attacks, and can be thrown and overcome by high guard break moves.
So to get past your opponent's guard, you have to use a combination of mids and lows. Mids are much stronger than lows—almost every low is [[punish]]able—so standing guard is the default defensive option.


; '''Crouching guard'''
High attacks don't get past guard at all, so they're only useful for interrupting an opponent who isn't guarding. Standard [[throw]]s are highs that go through guard so they're most similar to lows.
: Crouching guard blocks low attacks and high crushes highs and throws as you are in the crouching state. Crouching under highs and throws can be done instantly even when under normal guardable recovery (for example +G frames), except when forced to standing position through the generic running power crush tackle, or through projectiles.  


; '''Guardable recovery'''
== Neutral guard ==
: Some recovery animations in the game force you into guardable recovery where your freedom of actions is severely limited. Under guardable recovery one:
* Can't activate blocking through neutral guard
* Can't low parry as it requires you to be free to act in order to low parry the next colliding active frame of a low parriable move.
* Can't make a generic d/f+2 uppercut not launch you on a crouching hit (normally they do not launch when they hit on Normal Hit on a crouching opponent but only give slight plus frames and an aerial state for the victim which enables for instance ground hitting moves to be used)


; '''Forced standing guard example'''
If you don't do anything, you'll automatically block moves as if you were doing standing guard. This is known as neutral guard.
: As an example of this forced standing position, Geese can setup an unavoidable Rashomon Rage Art through the use of gaining +20 frames either through a meaty enough running armor tackle or an EX Shippuuken air fireball while in Max Mode.  


; '''Neutral Guard'''
Neutral guard results in less pushback than standing guard. This reduction in pushback is so tiny that it's almost always insignificant. However, there are a few moves where it matters, the most notorious being [[Heihachi]]'s f,F+2, which is much easier to [[punish]] after a neutral guard.
: Just like in a real fight, keeping your guard up requires presence of mind. After being hit, you stop blocking unless you're holding a back directional input or the string jails.
: Some powerful moves can break neutral guard even on block, such as Heihachi's u/f+3,4. This means if you block the first hit but aren't holding back for the second, the second will hit you.
:This can cause you to get hit while backdashing, since tapping back-back isn't holding back.
:For crouch guard there is no known difference in blocking by holding down or downback.


; '''Neutral Guard Activation'''
The amount of time it takes for neutral guard to activate depends on the animation you're in. For example, with [[Lee]] against a bot in [[training mode]] set to neutral guard after being hit:
Activation of standing neutral guard varies wildly based on the move in question. For example, with Lee, against bot set to «Stand» for «CPU Opponent Action 1» and «Neutral Guard» for «CPU Opponent Action 2»:
After d/b+2 (+7), ws3 (i10) is blocked, implying it takes fewer than 3 frames.
After 2,1 (+6), 1 (i10) hits but 4 (i11) is blocked, implying it takes 4 frames.
After 1 (+8), d/f+1 (i13) hits but 3 (i14) is blocked, implying it takes 5 frames. Credit: RogerDodger


; '''Neutral Guard application'''
* After db+2 (+7), ws3 (i10) is blocked, implying it takes fewer than 3 frames.
: In practise 99.9% of cases you should not be using neutral guard, but instead use holding back to block standing, or down or downback for crouch guard.  
* After db+3+4 (+4), 3 (i14) hits but df+2 (i15) is blocked, implying it takes 10 frames.
: In some cases pushback can be reduced by blocking a move in neutral guard, which can make certain long range punishers possible or easier. For example Heihachi's f,F+2 is -16 with pushback and lots of characters can't punish it at all unless certain conditions are met like neutral guarding it or it being blocked when one player's back is next to the wall or move being blocked off-axis.
* After d+2 (+8), f+3+4 (i30) hits, implying it takes more than 22 frames.
 
Neutral guard is immediate from crouch, standing guard, and any blockstun that doesn't [[guard break]].
 
There's no such thing as [[crouch]]ing neutral guard. There's no known difference between D and DB with respect to guard outside of a [[guardable recovery]], where sometimes DB blocks lows but D doesn't.
 
== Guard break ==
 
Some moves break guard when blocked. This doesn't damage any damage. It just stops the defender from guarding until they press B or DB again.
 
In a few cases, such as [[Lidia]]'s HAE.1+2, this can lead to a [[combo]], but usually it just punishes someone relying on neutral guard. For example, the second attack of [[King]]'s df+1,2 hits after the first is blocked unless the defender holds B.
 
== Low parry ==
 
Lows can be parried by pressing DF as the low connects. Parrying a low floats the opponent so that they can be [[juggle]]d for a full [[combo]]. This makes even the safest seeming lows very risky.
 
Low parry state lasts for 20 frames when done from standing but only 10 frames when done from crouch. As such, if a defender wants to, for example, low parry after being hit by a move that forces crouch, they ought to [[crouch cancel]] first.
 
{{Legend
|float=right
|blue=Standing
|orange=Full crouch
|teal=Low parry
|red=No guard
}}
 
{{FrameTableSet|
{{FrameTable|
{{Frame|0|n|blue}}
{{Frame|1|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|2|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|3|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|4|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|5|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|6|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|7|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|8|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|9|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|10|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|11|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|12|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|13|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|14|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|15|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|16|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|17|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|18|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|19|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|20|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|21|d/f|red}}
}}
{{FrameTable|
{{Frame|0|d|orange}}
{{Frame|1|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|2|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|3|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|4|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|5|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|6|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|7|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|8|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|9|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|10|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|11|d/f|red}}
}}
}}
 
When shifting from crouch to standing without a crouch cancel, the interaction with this window is similar to [[while standing]] where there is a lingering crouch. The low parry state lasts 10 frames plus however many frames D was released for.
 
{{Legend
|float=right
|orange=Full crouch
|teal=Low parry
|red=No guard
|green=Neutral guard
}}
 
{{FrameTable|
{{Frame|0|d|orange}}
{{Frame|1|n|green}}
{{Frame|2|n|green}}
{{Frame|3|n|green}}
{{Frame|4|n|green}}
{{Frame|1|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|2|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|3|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|4|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|5|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|6|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|7|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|8|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|9|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|10|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|11|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|12|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|13|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|14|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|15|d/f|red}}
}}
}}
As such, committing to a low parry by spamming DF has somewhat of a hole in it.
{{FrameTable|caption=Holding DF for 10 frames each time|
{{Frame|0|d|orange}}
{{Frame|1|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame||d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|10|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|11|n|green}}
{{Frame|12|n|green}}
{{Frame|13|n|green}}
{{Frame|1|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame||d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|10|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|11|n|green}}
{{Frame|12|n|green}}
{{Frame|13|n|green}}
{{Frame|1|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame||d/f|teal}}
}}
{{FrameTable|caption=Holding DF for 12 frames each time|
{{Frame|0|d|orange}}
{{Frame|1|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame||d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|10|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|11|d/f|red}}
{{Frame|12|d/f|red}}
{{Frame|13|n|green}}
{{Frame|14|n|green}}
{{Frame|15|n|green}}
{{Frame|1|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame||d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|10|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|11|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|12|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|12|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|13|n|green}}
{{Frame|14|n|green}}
{{Frame|15|n|green}}
{{Frame|1|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame||d/f|teal}}
}}
{{FrameTable|caption=Holding DF for 14 frames each time|
{{Frame|0|d|orange}}
{{Frame|1|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame||d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|10|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|11|d/f|red}}
{{Frame|12|d/f|red}}
{{Frame|13|d/f|red}}
{{Frame|14|d/f|red}}
{{Frame|15|n|green}}
{{Frame|16|n|green}}
{{Frame|17|n|green}}
{{Frame|1|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame||d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|10|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|11|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|12|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|12|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|13|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame|14|d/f|red}}
{{Frame|15|n|green}}
{{Frame|16|n|green}}
{{Frame|17|n|green}}
{{Frame|1|d/f|teal}}
{{Frame||d/f|teal}}
}}
If you don't go straight from DF to n and instead have some time at f then that's extra time where you're not guarding at all.
=== Slower than crouching guard? ===
There's a myth that low parry is slower than crouching guard. This myth arises because it's not possible to low parry during a [[guardable recovery]]. For example, during the last 12 frames of a [[tech roll]] the defender can block lows but not parry them. Since blocking works in this situation but parrying doesn't, uninformed players assume low parry is slower.
== Guardable recovery ==
There are many situations where it's possible to guard but not do anything else (such as [[low parry]]). This is because you haven't actually recovered yet, but the recovery permits guarding. Some examples:
* During the recovery of [[quickstand]], [[b getup]], and most [[tech recovery|tech recoveries]].
* The hitstun of moves with a ballerina spin animation, such as [[Lee]]'s ws2,4.
* After blocking or being hit by an attack in a [[string]].
Blocking lows with D on its own sometimes doesn't work here; only DB is reliable. For example, after blocking the first hit of [[Feng]]'s 3~4,3, DB will block and DF will low parry, but D on its own gets hit by the low.
For moves that are concerned with whether or not the defender is crouching, holding D or DB doesn't put you into crouch. This is notable against [[Law]], whose b+2,1 is +16g, and he gets a launch with df+2 against an opponent holding DB.
{{Navbox system}}

Latest revision as of 15:50, 7 July 2022

There are two guard levels: standing guard, done by holding B; and crouching guard, done by holding D or DB.

There are three basic attack types: highs, mids, and lows. Highs are blocked by standing guard and crushed by crouching guard. Mids are blocked by standing guard, and lows are blocked by crouching guard. Lows hit vs standing guard, and mids hit vs crouching guard.

Lows can also be parried with DF, leading to a juggle, but this has to be timed with the low connecting.

So to get past your opponent's guard, you have to use a combination of mids and lows. Mids are much stronger than lows—almost every low is punishable—so standing guard is the default defensive option.

High attacks don't get past guard at all, so they're only useful for interrupting an opponent who isn't guarding. Standard throws are highs that go through guard so they're most similar to lows.

Neutral guard

If you don't do anything, you'll automatically block moves as if you were doing standing guard. This is known as neutral guard.

Neutral guard results in less pushback than standing guard. This reduction in pushback is so tiny that it's almost always insignificant. However, there are a few moves where it matters, the most notorious being Heihachi's f,F+2, which is much easier to punish after a neutral guard.

The amount of time it takes for neutral guard to activate depends on the animation you're in. For example, with Lee against a bot in training mode set to neutral guard after being hit:

  • After db+2 (+7), ws3 (i10) is blocked, implying it takes fewer than 3 frames.
  • After db+3+4 (+4), 3 (i14) hits but df+2 (i15) is blocked, implying it takes 10 frames.
  • After d+2 (+8), f+3+4 (i30) hits, implying it takes more than 22 frames.

Neutral guard is immediate from crouch, standing guard, and any blockstun that doesn't guard break.

There's no such thing as crouching neutral guard. There's no known difference between D and DB with respect to guard outside of a guardable recovery, where sometimes DB blocks lows but D doesn't.

Guard break

Some moves break guard when blocked. This doesn't damage any damage. It just stops the defender from guarding until they press B or DB again.

In a few cases, such as Lidia's HAE.1+2, this can lead to a combo, but usually it just punishes someone relying on neutral guard. For example, the second attack of King's df+1,2 hits after the first is blocked unless the defender holds B.

Low parry

Lows can be parried by pressing DF as the low connects. Parrying a low floats the opponent so that they can be juggled for a full combo. This makes even the safest seeming lows very risky.

Low parry state lasts for 20 frames when done from standing but only 10 frames when done from crouch. As such, if a defender wants to, for example, low parry after being hit by a move that forces crouch, they ought to crouch cancel first.

Standing
No guard
Full crouch
Low parry
Frame
Input
State
0
n
1
d/f
2
d/f
3
d/f
4
d/f
5
d/f
6
d/f
7
d/f
8
d/f
9
d/f
10
d/f
11
d/f
12
d/f
13
d/f
14
d/f
15
d/f
16
d/f
17
d/f
18
d/f
19
d/f
20
d/f
21
d/f
Frame
Input
State
0
d
1
d/f
2
d/f
3
d/f
4
d/f
5
d/f
6
d/f
7
d/f
8
d/f
9
d/f
10
d/f
11
d/f

When shifting from crouch to standing without a crouch cancel, the interaction with this window is similar to while standing where there is a lingering crouch. The low parry state lasts 10 frames plus however many frames D was released for.

No guard
Full crouch
Low parry
Neutral guard
Frame
Input
State
0
d
1
n
2
n
3
n
4
n
1
d/f
2
d/f
3
d/f
4
d/f
5
d/f
6
d/f
7
d/f
8
d/f
9
d/f
10
d/f
11
d/f
12
d/f
13
d/f
14
d/f
15
d/f

As such, committing to a low parry by spamming DF has somewhat of a hole in it.

Holding DF for 10 frames each time
Frame
Input
State
0
d
1
d/f
d/f
10
d/f
11
n
12
n
13
n
1
d/f
d/f
10
d/f
11
n
12
n
13
n
1
d/f
d/f
Holding DF for 12 frames each time
Frame
Input
State
0
d
1
d/f
d/f
10
d/f
11
d/f
12
d/f
13
n
14
n
15
n
1
d/f
d/f
10
d/f
11
d/f
12
d/f
12
d/f
13
n
14
n
15
n
1
d/f
d/f
Holding DF for 14 frames each time
Frame
Input
State
0
d
1
d/f
d/f
10
d/f
11
d/f
12
d/f
13
d/f
14
d/f
15
n
16
n
17
n
1
d/f
d/f
10
d/f
11
d/f
12
d/f
12
d/f
13
d/f
14
d/f
15
n
16
n
17
n
1
d/f
d/f

If you don't go straight from DF to n and instead have some time at f then that's extra time where you're not guarding at all.

Slower than crouching guard?

There's a myth that low parry is slower than crouching guard. This myth arises because it's not possible to low parry during a guardable recovery. For example, during the last 12 frames of a tech roll the defender can block lows but not parry them. Since blocking works in this situation but parrying doesn't, uninformed players assume low parry is slower.

Guardable recovery

There are many situations where it's possible to guard but not do anything else (such as low parry). This is because you haven't actually recovered yet, but the recovery permits guarding. Some examples:

Blocking lows with D on its own sometimes doesn't work here; only DB is reliable. For example, after blocking the first hit of Feng's 3~4,3, DB will block and DF will low parry, but D on its own gets hit by the low.

For moves that are concerned with whether or not the defender is crouching, holding D or DB doesn't put you into crouch. This is notable against Law, whose b+2,1 is +16g, and he gets a launch with df+2 against an opponent holding DB.